another great one, Luke. I feel like maybe I should just stop commenting because it’s too repetitive…
18 billion? I thought the age of the universe was supposed to be ~13.5 billion years.
That’s what you were predestined to think.
predetermined not predestined. predestination would imply inten
This one really stands out for me. Very funny!
Funny, but what about the chaos theory?
Chaos theory places limits on our ability to predict future events, but does not say they are not determined by physical processes without will. In other words, your brain time-evolves due to the laws of physics. Chaos theory does not dispute this. It just examines the implications of imprecision in specifying initial conditions on the ability to predict future outcomes using those laws. There is no space for will.
Actually, modern physics is the physics of quantum mechanics which says that future events can NOT be determined even if all pre-existing conditions are known. The best that can be said about an event is a probability, so in essence there is no determinism. This stupid western worldview that everything can be determined is false and again freewill can be brought back into the picture.
Bobdole-. What you just argued had nothing to do with his point. You just said that we can not determine future events- which is exactly what Vincent meant. Our minds can not predict the future events, we only can formulate probabilities. But, your statement in no way refutes what Vincent said.
Also Bob please stop calling folk stupid. It benefits no one.
“Actually, modern physics is the physics of quantum mechanics which says that future events can NOT be determined even if all pre-existing conditions are known. The best that can be said about an event is a probability, so in essence there is no determinism. This stupid western worldview that everything can be determined is false and again freewill can be brought back into the picture.” Yes but we can only live in one possibility which is predetermined by our previous choices which were predetermined by our environment and relationships which was also determined by prior actions all the way back to a final point that set in motion everything from the structure of our universe to the meal you ate for dinner and even that single point might just be derived from other possibilities and back to infinity or you guessed it a single point.
But what if you turn to page 73?
This is great!
That was excellent.
Did you know this week’s #tuesdaysketch theme by @DJBogtrotter is, in fact, Calvin and Hobbes?
Where is page 72!? I want to read page 72!
As of the page title, it is somehow misleading, because what you expose in this comic is materialistic determinism. Calvinism is pretty different; it does affirm predestination as a consequence of the sovereignty of God, but:
- It is predestination concerning the question of faith and salvation: one believes because God has chosen so, not because one is just smarter than another. The daily decisions are not seen as pre-planned in calvinism (unlike in some form of islamic or materialistic fatalism)
- Calvinism at the same time affirms the free choice of man, in a way that everyone will be accountable for his own deeds. How it reconciles with the sovereignty of God is leads to a paradox (of the same kind that having light be wave and particle at the same time)
- In calvinism predestination occurs through the (free) will of a superior, personal and loving God, which wants to relate with us, not out of the blind machinery.
…so you believe in calvinism and not materialistic determinism?
you describe this as a theory, not a hypothesis
It’s a scientific hypothesis, not a scientific theory
Freewill and Causality
Freewill serves as basic hypothesis for the existence of society, while Causality is vital to nature sciences. No juristic system can hold where members of the community are not accountable for their actions under the alleged argument that their actions are pre-dictated by external causality. In the same token, science cannot survive unpredictable nature’s phenomena.
This paradox is solved by Belief. Scientists replaced transcendental entities by Rationality. William Bartley III (1999) pointed out to what he called “the boomerang effect”. Every rational argument faces the regressive request: ‘prove it’. Since no universal standard or goal can be established, the regression continues until the rationalist answers ‘I believe in Rationality’. Thus the conclusion that Rationality foundations are shaky is inevitable. Popper’s suggested cutting the Gordian knot by selecting an arbitrary point in the argument from which the rationalist stops and tries to refute his own presumptions.
The ancient debate on Freewill and Causality always stops at belief. One cannot ‘persuade’ conviction. Logical arguments are reserved for rational disagreements. Paradoxes are created whenever wrong tools are implemented; and I believe that the present discussion is a good example.
Reminds me of a nice quote : “It is idle to talk always of the alternative of reason and faith. Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all. If you are merely a sceptic, you must sooner or later ask yourself the question, “Why should ANYTHING go right; even observation and deduction? Why should not good logic be as misleading as bad logic? They are both movements in the brain of a bewildered ape?” The young sceptic says, “I have a right to think for myself.” But the old sceptic, the complete sceptic, says, “I have no right to think for myself. I have no right to think at all.”" G.K Chesterton – Orthodoxy
Were dose this come from. Does anyone know the name of the book this page is from.
This old man needs to have a chat with some quantum physicists. The universe/multiverse/megaverse is anything but pre-determined.
You can never disprove supernatural claims. You can always claim that even though everything works as if by chance, the actual outcome of each chance experiment is still pre-determined, and nobody will ever be able to disprove that.
…in which case each of our comments will happen. what we decide to post/ not post has already been determined.
Love it. It appears to have been made the front page of reddit too, though without attribution alas… :s
Hey – is this your artwork? It reminds me eerily of someone I know. Please let me know the attribution. Thanks!
Definitely drawn by me, yes. Each blade of grass was an individual stroke with my XS Faber Castel Pitt pen. Took me ages. Did it in the pub as a matter of interest.
again no attribution…
There’s an attributing link at the current time – it looks like it was added in the last few minutes. Thanks for letting me know!
Luke, sir. This is awesome! I cannot think of a better satire/philosphy/social commentary than this: genius! Do you sell prints? Truly.
But I just wouldn’t follow the book’s instructions.
Hee hee hee….funny……
A commenter sent me here, and I’ve reproduced it (with attribution) at CT. Hope that’s ok (tell me if not).
This post has been linked for the HOT5 Daily 3/14/2010, at The Unreligious Right
the alt text represents one attribute of a vastly intelligent and grand technology
also, the universe is not all that old; check it out
Ah yes, thought I changed that a week or so ago but obviously I didn’t. Well it now says 14 billion, which is about right-ish.
i really dig this piece and shared it, with a link to your site (crediting you), on facebook. is this your only work referencing the choose-your-own-adventure theme? i looked through several of your pieces; did i miss others that are similar? what a series that’d be! i particularly found this work interesting as i am fascinated by, and research extensively, the practice of hoodoo (more specifically african vodoun and the syncretistic magico-religious stemming from it). hoodooism very much involves working with ‘providence’ and god’s role, through the practitioner’s hand(s), in carrying out ‘retributive justice’. great work!
Thanks for the link. This is my only comic on a CYOA theme to date,
Predicting the future of a book is a little bit different. Reminds me of my annoying room mate ruining a episode of the simpson on me.
Love the art, dude!
I bet 90% of all readers would turn to page 57. (I would)
dude, i was looking for page 72!
hoodooism very much involves working with ‘providence’ and god’s role, through the practitioner’s hand(s), in carrying out ‘retributive justice’. – ugh?
It’s actually a philosophical thesis, not a scientific one.
Determinism doesn’t need ‘modern neuroscience’ to be proven. A basic understanding of physics or even common sense is sufficient to lead us to the conclusion that there is no free will.